Starting a new business – Convo with Josh Fenn AKA Bearded Fat Loss

hey what's going on guys I'm excited formy conversation today with my friend Josh been off there in Portland and he'srecently made the move from having a full time job to starting his own smallbusiness micro business he actually got a few of them going on it's reallyinteresting in the creative space but he's actually been a creator on YouTubeon Instagram for a long time and that's how he and I first connected so we'llget into a bunch of that Josh thank you so much man I appreciate you taking thetime right of course always happy to chat you know we've hadour nice ongoing you know kind of digital friendship for a few years nowso yeah always happy to come on yeah so you've recently started will left yourfull-time job and went all-in on your on your business yeah mm-hmm oh it washorrifying it was I jumped ship a lot earlier than intended just because I wasincreasingly more and more miserable at my day job there was a bunch of you knowit was a bunch of internal stuff one and then there was some external stuff withthe place I was working at that I was just really unhappy which says just likeone day I I remember I took a few week break fromYouTube just because I was feeling overwhelmed with my workload now it'slike well you know I can't take a few weeks off of work so I'll just take afew week break from YouTube and I did that and the second I had like a fewdays to think I realized like I gotta get out of here and I got to go do myown things I just jump ship a little bit prematurely but yeah definitely scary Iam lucky enough to have my my wife with me though that helps kind of offset someof that scariness with having her income there too for when we were jumping shipthat was that was a big part of why I stayed on as long as I did she's a hairstylist and we moved out to Portland 2016 and you know she was talentedobviously but moving out here she had to essentially restart and rebuild theirwhole business and clientele so I was you know covering a lot while she wasbuilding up and then she had gotten kind of established enough for me to jumpship and so now we're both were both added but yeah definitely scary but yeahfelt good – yeah it's definitely I remember thefirst time I like just straight-up quit a job – to go off and do something andit was very similar the same thing that there was I wasn't happy with what I wasdoing I was an engineer you know and I is kind of like the first real job I hadhad like in my adult life I'd been an entrepreneur for in my 20s and part ofmy 30s and then you know I took this uh took this job in Telecom and I wasworking as an engineer and you know almost 10 years in and I just like Ican't keep doing this yeah and it's funny like I did it and then like thereare friends who I had worked with in that company over the years a lot ofthem just starts to do the same thing because you know it was the it was justthe environment you know in that environment sort of forces you to make adecision either get a new job or go do something else and yeah I I went alittle extreme though I quit my job moved halfway across the world you knowas good as I went I didn't have anything started up nice yeah that's that's crazyyeah if I've always had some sort of side hustle and especially some sort ofcreative side hustle because before I got into YouTube and all of the stuffI'm doing now I was a musician for a lot of years and you know we got to touraround the country and I saw I was always doing multiple things so it feelsgood now after like so many years of trying like I'm full-time like doingwhat I want to do as scary as it can be some days it's awesome you know and inthat creative space – there's so many business aspects to it that I think alot of people don't get you know like figuring out pricing figure out marketsensitivity sales funnel development like all these things are verytime-consuming yeah I know it's um and it's been you know with me jumping shipa little bit earlier you know the finances have been a little tight duringthat transition so the time is so crucial and yeah it's been toughfiguring out some of that stuff because you know I can't necessarily I I have toknow something is going to work at least somewhat if I'm gonna take you know weekout of my schedule to work on you know like withthat we'll get into this more later but my cat photography business I have youknow a merch line that I designed for my cats Instagram so like having me likededicate time or like YouTube videos things like that it's always so crucialyou know you got to know something's gonna work before you know you want inyour in your YouTube in your online persona yeah and I want to talk aboutthat because that originally I started following you on Instagram it's a beardof fat loss and then you watch the YouTube channel I came over to there andI was saying before I don't know when you started to share exactly but when Istart to follow you had already lost like a ton of weight like a whole personyeah and you were sort of recounting the experience and sharing your insights anda very measured and sort of self experimental way which is what Iappreciated about it yeah but you I guess within the last year made theshift from the channel went from bearded fat loss to josh van yeah yeah catalystbehind that you know it's it was kind of a long time coming when I first startedthe Instagram account I was you know I was right in the thick of watching youknow Fitness youtubers and Instagram pages and stuff and I was trying tothink of some you know catchy name and titles like I've got a beard you talkingabout fat loss and you know that was where it came but then as stuff startedto take off more you know I kind of was becoming more and more disassociatedwith the name and just wishing it was my own name but then it was it was scaryand I held off for a long time wanting to you know change the channel name andI knew things I didn't want to lose out on you know growth or lose my followingand I had already grown to that point so I put it off and put it off and put itoff but over time you know I started to shift more out of weight loss content orat least incorporating other types of content and yeah it was right aroundwhen I took that break and went full-time with everything I just kind ofdecided one day I'm like I'm just gonna bite the bullet and do it yeah if thisworks the way I want it to you know the little bit of pushback I'mgonna get now in these early stages it's going to be very insignificant long termso I better just do it now while I can and definitely glad I did because yeahit was I used to do all weight loss content and just over time it's um youknow as my weight maintenance was getting easier and easier for me I waskind of losing some of that passion behind doing all of that content butthen also I think even more so it was I just felt like I'm constantly runningout of ideas like I have nothing left to teach you and so I was like you know Ifelt like I was just repeating myself and I was increasingly like less andless in it just because I felt like I covered everything I needed to cover andI had all these other interests I wanted to explore and a lot of the videos I haddone kind of outside of the genre had performed really well like my even whenit was still beard and fat loss as a channel you know out of my top fivevideos yeah I had a deep-dish pizza recipe they got like half a millionviews I had a you know a couple of backpack and bag reviews that that itwent up there so you know 60% of my top videos weren't even related to weightloss anyway so I mean I remember when you moved to Portland you started doingthe you started doing the food cooking videos like the recipe videos reallysomatically doing them well and that was sort of a departure from the originalcontent and then you also start to do the walk with me series I think youcalled it yeah yeah we would kind of talk about a topic and you were walkingto work and I remember you did the first couple of like super cinematic hikingvideos yep going out into the woods and like the soft focus oh no and I wouldpersonally be a little scared leaving my camera some of those shots you were faraway man oh yeah I know it's set my whole rig up and walk like a half akilometer out I know that's why I haven't done much in the city in a whilejust because especially now that it's my livelihood it's like I had cheap gearthen and I had their job then so it was like obviouslyI would have been devastated if it got stolen but now it's just so much moreimportant to me I haven't been wanting to do any of that city stuff like I usedto without having someone with me at least in the woods you know you don'thave people around that are gonna walk up and steal unless you're on somepopular trail I suppose but I'll probably be on a quick sidenote I'llprobably bring back more of those nature type of videos I've been super obsessedwith like camping and backpacking stuff the last couple of months last week so Idid I have filmed and then ended up I didn't finish the video because I wasstarting to get hypothermia and just kind of perfect what we're talking aboutJoshua no winter camping without winter camping hair laughs yet that was I'vebeen watching there's a youtuber named Steve Wallace yeah he does like stealth camping andwinter camping I've been completely obsessed with this guy he's amazing he'sjust this like super sweet like kind Canadian fellow yeah he's yes I had been watching abunch of his stuff and he's a big advocate for like you know you don'tneed all this expensive gear to get out there and and I'd been wanting to gocamping since I moved out to Portland were in like camping mecca of thecountry and I been wanting to hold off until I could afford you know reallynice backpacking gear and I was like you know what I'm just gonna get some geargo out there but yeah my like knockoff Chinese $30 sleeping bag did not farewell in the you know for celcius is probably like negative one Celsiusnegative to somewhere around there and yeah it was miserable I amthey I and I knew it was kind of the early stages of hypothermia I used to gocamping up in the Upper Peninsula in Michigan and we swam in Lake Superiorwhich was like the most brutally cold water you could possibly imagineand I remember getting those feelings when we were doing that and thenstarted to feel that that night but yeah so I got some shots and I'm trying tofigure out a way I might do like a little desk storytime and intercut someof the footage I ended up having to postpone that for a few days and work onsomething else for next week so I can take some more time to think about itbut something should be coming and if not I'm already planning and going backout I got a warmer sleeping bag plan on going back out next week or maybe theweek after so nice yeah well it's still pretty cold I guess out in Portland ohyeah it's especially out in the woods you know because I'm going out I havelimited options for marking jokes I've been car free but there's some publictransit options to get out to some state parks and things and throughout yeahthey're out in like the coast range of Oregon so it's all mountains and stuffso even in this summer you know it's pretty chilly during the nights but yeahright now it's it's about in Fahrenheit at least it's you know right around 50degrees during the day and right 3035 during during the night yeah broken nowcuz I you know I grew up with Fahrenheit grew up with inches and feet and youknow I all my education is in like tech and engineering and then living in Asianow for like seven years I'm like completely converted to Celsius andmetrics is so much easier it makes so much more sense like zero and a hundredyeah it's just it's logic yeah it drives me nutsI'm completely broken I'm like hi I don't know if I can go back to you as Isee a sign that's like you know only 20 miles an hour but yeah it's yeah I don'teven know for the tempura and any sort of distance measurements to I don't knowmetric makes sense and it just is like the epitome of America for like we'rethe only country that yeah it's us and me Tamaroh really I thought it was just us in Myanmar and I think like Libya orsomething you know so like three powerhouses so let's talk about the business thatyou started cuz you hinted at your cat photography business and yeah you dointhat before you left your job but you've essentially become a freelancevideographer photographer for the most part while you're still structuring thebusiness and figuring it all out is that right Josh yeah yeah absolutely and solike what did you do when the day you quit you know what was like step onelike okay I don't have a full-time job anymore what did you do first thing youknow first thing was just kind of like scrambling and trying to figure out howto get clients and you know just doing a lot of research and things like that thething that really helps for getting you know cuz it's so tough to get from thatzero to one when you're starting off with freelancing helped to that I had toyoutube and especially around the time I quit you know there's highs and lows toolike YouTube traffic and income and stuff so as I was doing pretty good tohave like a little bit of stable income from the YouTube channel but yeah I hadreally just reached out and kind of extended myself to my network make sureeveryone knew you know that I was doing this and my skill set and I think that'sa good strategy a lot of people think you know talking to your friends orfamily it's like you're begging for money or something but I think the keyis like not necessarily asking them to hire you for things but as a couple ofexamples you know my wife's a hair stylist so she'll you know chat with herclients so what does your husband do and you know then so that'll come up inconversation there I was able to land a couple of jobs with I Heart Radio doingphotography for a couple of events just through that so it was you know my wifetalking about just her life and what her husband does for a living and then youknow I had a friend that worked for a local environmental nonprofit and theywere you know they do a big yearly video with an award show and he had rememberedoh yeah my friend just started doing this so let's reach out to him so youknow having it's kind of that uh that one extra step outside of your networkif your whole network knows what you do you know it'll come up in theirconversations and you know so that was that was a good way for me to getjump-started with everything I think it also helps to having the the YouTubechannel and you know not that I have a giant following but you know having alittle bit of credibility from that just helps get you a little bit moreconnected with a lot of people but yeah yepnow I also you your network couldn't have been as robust as previous becauseyou had work you had recently moved from Michigan to Portland yeah yeah that werebuilding that up again yeah that that's also been tough I hadthought about that as well as like if I was still back in Michigan I know allthese people and being around with bands and things and I had a lot of contextand you know music industry back there but oh yeah so I was already kind ofworking and building that up but luckily you know we've between my wife and Iwe've made some some pretty good friends and contacts and things around here yeahlike I said to the YouTube channel it's a really great way to get connected witha lot of people yeah I remember when you first moved out there you posted somevideos where you were going to like like what they call it trivia night typestuff oh yeah train around of the trolley around yeahwe stew and we've just gotten like old and boring since then – yeah we we werewhen we were first moving out here you know trying to meet people and makefriends and stuff we were yeah going to all sorts of random nights and yeahchecking all those types of event pages and stuff online going out to stuff andyeah really great way to meet people and and we actually ended up meeting youknow we're in a decently big apartment building downtown so we made quite a fewfriends that live in our building or people that used to live here which isnice you know having some nice people to go you know grab a quick drink orsomething with and and then as two friends from Malaysia that live in thesame building and never knew it Oh both for years and years and I interviewedit's funny I've interviewed them both on my previous radio show in Malaysia andthen one of them on my current ones but theythat they were in some startup accelerator they're both entrepreneursand that's how they met and they realized that they lived in the samebuilding and they both knew me yeah it's um it's crazy a small world and some ofthose things yeah yeah you know so that's cool that you've got that yousort of like took the time to build up network make friends you know get toknow people out there cuz that can be tough when you move especially like whenyou're like in your like late 20s 30s 40s and you move somewhere and yeah youdon't know anyone and you're just trying to like build a network get to knowpeople find out you know what's interesting you know um but you know bythe same token I'm sort of in that same sort of old man drop myself like Jim andI pretty much we live downstairs is our workspace in our studio and thenupstairs is our living space and then everything that we want for the mostpart is within like a kilometer of where we live so we walked to the night marketfor dinner we maybe go out to like a certain restaurant I'm the I'm the mainroad for lunch you know we just work from home all day ya know I yeah I getthat yeah I um you know being on foot andliving downtown and everything I barely leave my like few block radius yeah I Ihave to give most of the credit to my wife for getting me up and about cuzyeah I'm I'm usually too pretty quiet and introverted and don't like doing alot of social events but yeah my wife kind of gets me keeps me like a I alwaystreat I always joke that she you know helps me stay like a regular like anormal person yeah you know I'm also car free I don'tdrive I can't imagine driving in in the city especially in Bangkok where thetraffic's insane oh yeah yeah but we're foot we're both fortunate that we livein in cities that have amazing public transportation yeah yeah people take itfor granted and indefinitely I realized how lucky I am butsimultaneously you know it's not the norm here I don't know how it is inBangkok oh I would assume with a bigger city it's probably a little morenormalized but even in Portland has the best transit I've been in any US cityat in my you know scope at least but it uh even out here though not very manypeople you utilize the transit and that like I still remember when I was stillout working you know people still looked at me like I was weird and and so likeit's it's funny that for amazed as amazing as it is it's not thatnormalized but then also to if if that's a goal that you might want to achievethat was a huge reason what you know why we wanted to move out here to begin withso I think people kind of have this you know why me or poor me type of mentalityfor like huh you know I wish or if I was in that situation you know if someonereally wanted to you could definitely take the steps to do stuff like that youknow yeah it's funny like I lived in Ohio in Cleveland before I moved toThailand and Rhode Island before that both places where you really can't getaround without a car like it's it's a necessity like and it's an unfortunatenecessity and then in Bangkok I know so many people who drive who just sit intraffic yeah and you know for me I'm like I can we have these little thingscalled song tells they would never be legal in the US but they're little minipickup trucks and songs house two rows so there'll be two rows of seats in theback and for essentially like six ba which is like 20 cents I can take thatfrom the we call a street a soy from the soy that I live on up to where the Trainis is about a five-minute song tile ride for 20 cents then I can jump on our skytrain which is beautiful is absolutely gorgeous and it runs through most of thecity and then we have a subway that goes through another part of the city andthey intersect at multiple locations it's just such a fantastic system and ofcourse we have buses the buses are a little crazy because they don't reallystop and I have a video that's actually done really well on my channel calledBangkok bus eight and it's not the day we took it it wasn't super crazy but itwas a little sketchy nice yeah there's some yeah there's allsorts of random transit things out hereunfortunately nothing that cheap but kind of on a similar cheap spectrum likeeven when I was going out camping I found this but it was called theColumbia County rider and it's this it connects Portland out to the Pacificcoast it's about 80 miles away so there's a handful of bus lines and Irode this bus out from town I took like our main the TriMet is what they youknow our transit systems I took the train out there and I connected withthis bus and it took me like 40 miles for three dollars because it was amazingand like I don't think anyone really realizes their utilizes that sort ofstuff it's that's awesome tons of options the other the other crazy thingwe have our hair is scooter taxis and so you can take here we call themmotorcycle when it's like um a guy on a scooter and you jump on the back and ittakes you where you want to go and usually like I'll take it occasionallylike from my house to to the Train if I'm like really in a hurry and becauseit's it's much faster but the other day I was really running late at a coffeemeeting with someone and I was running behind schedule so I ordered we have anapp called grab it's similar to BRR and so I ordered a motorcycle taxi on thatand we jump behind and it was the most terrifying experience in my life becausewe had to go down this uh this main road in Bangkok called sukima it's like youknow any main road in like a big city right it's just tons of traffic peopleswerving in and out and he was just throttling it with me on the back itsounds crazy yeah we we finally got all of the electric scooters and Steffan nowto different from you know what you've got but yeah that's been a fun thingit's a little bit it's so expensive though compared to just walking ortaking the regular transit but it's a fun like every once in a while sort ofthing but I've done that once out here andwas it was crazy expensive I could have I could have taken a boss for like atenth of the price right you know obviously he could walk for free I thinkI was going like 2 kilometers and it cost me if I remember was like a hundredand seventy baht which is like three ish dollars so not a ton of money butcompared to it was probably it least double the cost of any other expensivetransportation model it was fun scary at times but fun you know and they theydon't have pneumatic wheels out here I don't know if yours have pneumaticwheels these had solid wheels so how ill every like it um it depends on the brainsome of them do some of them don't but yeah it's a night and day difference foryeah for the hard wheels yeah yeah yeah so but yeah the other thing if I everreally need a car and I'm sure it's the same for you I can rent one for like aday or two exactly we have an enterprise you know there's there's all the appslike Toro and get around and I don't have a lot of experience with them butyeah we have an enterprise that's you know within a mile of us and I think youknow on the off season like right now we can rent a car for 15 bucks for the dayyou know so we'll do that every couple of months to go to the coast or if Ihave a job that's further out you know I usually end up renting a car for workyou know one Thor so yeah so why do you need exactly why do you need to own acar when there's all these other options and I know and I always think about thattoo like even if money was absolutely no issue like I would reactor just go renta car once a week if I really wanted to you know this dress yeah additional callI mean even though he said if money's not an issue but the additional costthat maintenance insurance all these things for something that you use atmost once a week yeah and then it really is so stressful I know you can relate tothis but I'm sure anyone that drives regularly doesn't won't reallyunderstand it it's so stressful driving when you know when you kind of step awayfrom it and go back to it's like jeez this is a lot of yeah I like being ableto quietly you know sit on the bus or sit up in the train and get stuff doneor walk and yeah it's stress driving through all that traffic so yeahI I really love not having to deal with that as much as possible you know it'snice now in Bangkok they started to implement seat free trains nice Oh likecertain cars will have like no seats or only half the seats mm-hmm so they havelike spots you can stand and then sort of lean up against the wall if it's nottoo full and is it's much more comfortable for me or at least like Iyou know to like stand the whole time as opposed to sit because I sit so muchduring the day you know no I do the same yeah yeah yeah some of our trains willhave you know it's yeah I'd say it's probably about half and halfmore seats than not but you know right by the doors you have big open areas Iusually like to stand too because he has sitting all day working I don't need tosit on the train I can stand for like 5 minutes 10 minutes you know now I wantto I want to get back to your business though so yeah you networked your wayinto like your first couple jobs and are you seeing steady growth it's um youknow to be honest the last few months have been much more focused in YouTubestuff and that's like I was saying with having to kind of really evaluate mytime so it it just depends on the month or the time you know I'll I'll gothrough these bouts or I'm really focused on you know the cat photographybusiness or the freelance video business or YouTube and so it's kind of a pollbetween but yeah growth has been pretty steady I I haven't put as much attentioninto growing the freelancing as much as I probably should but yeah it's um it'sworked out pretty well and and the business is funny enough you know cuzlike I'll be focusing on one other thing but they've been slowly starting tomerge you know last year I had a handful of video jobs that I got from thecafeteria business I worked with a couple of animal shelters and kind ofcreating like promotional documentaries for them and stuff so it's been themthey've been almost kind of merging so it's yeah it's kind of snowballabsolutely it's I haven't been my photography yeah okay I'm sure peopleare one now what is what is a cap photographybusiness and how did you come up with this idea yeah so it's it all startedoff I you know having the YouTube channel I got my cat Wolfie and towardsthe end of 2017 he's an adorable little British Shorthair gray cat super cute abunch of people were bugging me like you have to start an Instagram forum and andI was already taken a billion photos of them anyway just for fun and a catphotography video for your YouTube channel yeah yeah is cat photography 1015 tips to take better pictures that your cat something like that but but yeah soa bunch of people were egging me on the start an Instagram account forum and Idid and I was just blown away how fast it was growing you know his with prettyminimal effort his account went from you know zero to 30, 000 in a year and insideI had started and people are really liking the photos and as I kind of dovemore into the like pet Instagram space not very many people take nice photoseither even the bigger channels and so I was realizing like my photos are reallybetter than a lot of other people's and and then I'd quit the joband part of we helped my security I was like I should try and figure out someother income streams and and because the photos were so well received I was likeyou know I could probably replicate this and take photos of other people'sanimals and you know there's Portland I don't mean to laugh oh no I realize howsilly it is definitely no no hard feelings but yeah so the the photos weretaken well and I thought you know I could probably do this for other peopleand Portland is actually a huge animal town and there are quite a few petphotographers but no one everyone focuses on dogs almost completely andnot very many people focus on cats and and that was always a bigin the research I've done this is probably the case for any sort offreelancing but for for photography you know kind of finding where you canspecialize yourself and you know because there was a bunch of pet photographersno one was really doing cats I was like I can take better photos of cats thanmost people I've found on the internet so I was like I'm gonna set this up andkind of market it as like a you know higher-end maybe not like a luxuryservice but definitely like a professional high-end photographerbecause the type of people that are gonna spend any noticeable amount ofmoney on photos for their pet you know they're gonna want to bus like I hired acat photographer so you know I really wanted to market myself as aprofessional and and the photos you know the quality was there to match so I Ijust started getting into it and set up the website and set up a second catInstagram account just for all the the client photos and yeah so it all startedfrom from getting my cats Instagram and and a big thing that helped take thatoff and kind of build up my portfolio to have other cats and and get moreexperience with it I started volunteering with some foster like catfostering agencies that's been super fun and rewarding to kind of as a side noteit's a great way to kind of get my foot into the business a bit and get someexperience but yeah super fun helping out and like taking photos of thesefoster cats and like the photos leading to them getting homes and all that it'svery adorable it's a it's like a nice yeah it's a nice respite from like thevideo work I love it and I'm very passionate about it but it's it's verymentally exhausting this is something like nice and simple about going andtaking pictures of these adorable cats and yeah yeah but so let me ask you thenwhat is the what's the kit look like for a professional cat photographer becauseI know we talked about like before you you have like cheaper gear and now thatyou sort of went in like so tell me tell us tell the audience what it is youinvested in when you first got started at this and then what is your videoversus your photography kit and specifically I'm just really curious toknow what the cap photography kit is absolutely sir and uh like certainthings that you have that you wouldn't have to shoot people for instance yeahyeah so um that'll play on doing a whole separate video for the the catphotography bag at some point but uh one other thing to mention on the lines ofgear that gave me a bit of a competitive edge with the kaepa dog Rafi was anotherthing people don't I already had all of my expensive camera equipment from thevideo business and YouTube so I had a big edge of like having overly nice gearfor what the job is but uh yeah the camera is pretty similar in in terms ofthe lenses and stuff I use yeah I have a Sony a7 three that's what you're seeingon here right now and then my my main cat photography lens up until veryrecently I just picked up a new lens that I've been really liking but it'sthe zeiss batis 85mm meter it's just a portrait lens really great for peopletoo but yes I have kind of the usual my my camera my lenses but then along withmy kind of regular camera equipment which is pretty standard what I'd bringfor people photo shoots or animal photo shoots I have like a separate area Ibring catnip spray oh yeah it's like just like a little spray bottle somecats like it some cats don't but uh yeah I always carry that with me I carrytreats like I get these little treat samples from my pet store and I'll bringthose with me and and then I have like a little mouse wand toy that I you knowI'm playing with them and then I yeah so I'm always picking up like random littletoys and stuff I can pack in there yeah so toys treats catnip stuff I recentlypicked up catnip bubbles yeah yeah I had the idea of like how how cool would itbe to have you know that kind of shallow depth of field with a bunch of bubblesin the foreground and background and stuff so far there's only been a coupleof cats that have really liked them but the photos turnedcool when they were into it but yeah but yeah I mean that's about it you got tokeep compared to you know I don't do any studio type of photography you know Iuse lighting and stuff for video but most of my photography gigs have beenmore like event photography or outdoor portraits so I usually don't but yeahyou have to keep the gear down for the cats because if you have like big lightsand all this obnoxious equipment you know they just not into it or they getscared so essentially I'm just like playing with them and like sneakingphotos in my other hand so I'll have like a toy in one hand foot my camera inthe other yeah yeah yeah that's like you got to use natural light no flash no nolighting equipment or anything go stay close to the window yeah I shoot on Fujiactually have a Fuji XH one you love those colors and love it's a used toshoot Canon and I got so frustrated with Canada and when they did I wasn't happywith the when they did the mirrorless switchover and like the feature theybrought more and more about what they didn't bring yeah should have and andthen the whole new lens mile and you know some issues with the adapter I wasjust really frustrated and my cannons were all sort of end-of-life anyway yeahI was like yeah you know if I'm gonna switch this is the time right like I'vegot some caring glass but and Gipp still prefers to shoot on her Canon so all ofour L lens that she uses well I was like let me see what I like and at the timethe XH one was on sale with like a battery grip and extra batteries and allthis stuff I made a switch and after I had shot my friends xt3 in Malaysia andI've never been happier with a camera I mean it's so and like I don't feel likethe pressure to upgrade because Fugees like their line is smaller they're youknow they're they're great cycles are slower and something about the camerajust feels a little bit more sustainable I am that I've never actually shot withFuji but anything I've ever seen like all the Fuji colours are so amazing yeahthat's the one downside you know the Sony cameras have a really bad rap forthe colors and I'm realizing too this is all like extra flat what you're seeingright now because with the picture profile for the stream but but yeah Sonycameras in recent years have gotten way better with their color science like thea 7-3 versus like a 7s2 or I have my B cam as the a 6400 the colors are reallyamazing the autofocus is incredible which is really important for YouTubestuff a lot of times not being able to be behind the camera and then also youhave for the cat photography especially if it's super autofocus intensive soyeah I've been I've been pretty happy with that if if I had you know unlimitedcash to get you know dedicated gear for the cat photography down the road Ireally want to get something a little bit higher megapixel than this because Ihad this mostly for video and it's amazing for video but I I have my eye onlike they have the a seminar for is 60 megapixels cuz I really want to get intoin addition to like the client work for the cat photographer I want to startselling online like almost like fine art prints I picture like macro detail shotsof cat things and stuff to be able to sell I feel like people would be youknow very specific cat person would be into that sort of stuff but yeah exactlyit's it's crazy though it's a whole other universe when when I first starteddiving in yeah it's um it's also – just the most like nice in positive place onthe internet that I've been like getting in all this stuff with with any of thepet related social media stuff everywhere everyone's just nice everylike it yeah it's adorable I'm feel the weight loss space was not as kind now oryeah or anything most everything I'm doing on youyou know it is not nearly as kind yeah weight loss deaf people have ahair-trigger around like minimalism type of things on YouTube you know Tech hasits fair share of you know YouTube Tech has its fair share of people like I getsome get some crazy stuff all the time like you know people don't like it theydon't like it some people really hate the stuff I do so it's like yeahwhatever yeah I mean yeah you gotta just do yourbest to push that stuff out goodsoon yeah yeah I took almost twoyears off and I was working on some other projects like really like takingup a lot of my time and I just had the energy for for YouTube when I came backI was like oh let's see how it goes and I posted up so I was like what the fuckI thought you died who died geez people yeah people are crazythat sort of stuff makes me nuts sometimes but it's usually with myvideos if they stay if if they don't perform like super you know if theydon't get pushed out into the world like if they in my community it's usuallyreally nice and for the most part yeah I get far more nice than not nice commentsbut yeah any of the videos that really like take off and get pushed out intothe general public people are just insane like like I did a minimalist techbag video kind of showing the stuff I carry around day-to-day and you know Ihave five things in there you know you can you could have a laptop in there andnothing else some people would say oh that's too much tech or you know you canhave like a notebook and a pen and complain that you have you know too toomany things it's not about less stuff it's aboutonly the stuff that has value exactly that's an end and it's funny it's allthese like bandwagon people that that saw the Netflix documentary that cameout a few years it's which you know it's a fine documentary but yeah all thesepeople are like you know minimalism experts that I have to please everyoneand it makes it make tough for people you know I I always Isee minimalism as a tool to utilize yeah like focusing on things that bring valueto your life and getting rid of the things that don't and it's it's apractice and a tool it's not you are or aren't it's a tool that you utilize inyour day-to-day so there's no you know it's yeah that stuff frustrates me Idon't need her I don't use and someone else could some way but at the same timelike we have a design studio downstairs full of stuff yeahin the building we live in we have a whole storage room up on the secondfloor just for jibs like inventory it's like a room full of just stuff antiminimalist thing ever it's well organized but it's tough yes sometimesyou just need that stuff like I am you know I have a ton of camera I know Idon't have a ton compared to a lot of people but you know for me I have a lotof camera equipment and in my eyes and but you know I use every last bit of itlike I was shooting a video for youtube yesterday and I had literally like everysingle piece of everything I owned was set up for this one shoots like you knowyou should make it like a video of like your minimalist camera setup and justlike one cheap like zoom lens that's like 16 – like 390 and no light and justyou know like that this is my minimalist and somehow you could just use yourphone yeah I know that's a yeah there's there's no winning with thosecomplainers out there it is um it was really big there's a Japanese guy who'sreally big in popular and uh in Thailand at least for YouTube even though hisvideos are in Japanese but he only does he's like super minimalist he lives inlike a room with like a notepad and a desk and yeah I mean maybe it's not thatextreme maybe here's like a spoon in a bowl but you know it's you know what Imean it's like super nothingness yeah and I mean that's cool if you can dothat and he's obviously making a living from doing it he's like filming himselfand giving it by so this and when you have that few things but you're creatingall this content around it yeah throws up some red flags for meyeah and I I always have a tough time to with with that sort of stuff I feel likethere's a level of like cheapening minimalism the more content I makearound it so I'd try and be you know light-handed with what I'm doing aroundthat because yeah I feel like it kind of takes away some of the the positiveattributes with with doing a ton of stuff around it and yeah and yeah I amI'm nowhere near that extreme with things I I don't even like tonecessarily call myself a minimalism like or a minimalist like I said it's Ijust kind of see it as a tool in my life that I like to lean on for things I seeit the same way like I've been at points in my life we're like I had like veryfew things I was telling someone the other day I'm LinkedIn when I was singleand I was living by myself I had literally a metal cup a metal plate aspoon and a fork and not because I was trying to be like all ultra coolminimalist but I just didn't want to wash a bunch of stuff you know we hadthis I think I had a rice cooker because that's what I cooked everything and soif it was like if I couldn't combine everything into one pot and cook it inthe rice cooker and in like one of those cheap rice cookers where you just likepress the button down and wait for it yeah you know then you know that's justall I wanted to deal with though and other things to focus on in my life yeahit's nice and that's definitely how I kind of feel about a lot of stuff withas much as I love the things that I own and use them but you know everythingthat in in my eyes at least everything that you own or have is a responsibilityin a sense and yeah and that's just like you would not wanting to deal with ityeah I just try and get rid of that excess because I don't want to deal withany of it yeah so you know it's funny a lot of apartments or houses in Thailanddon't have kitchens you know a big part of that is that it'sso much easier to eat out here and it's actually so much cheaper yeah yeah Ihave heard of that so many times from you and other people visiting and stuffI I love eating out it's just too expensive I love it too much for the eatup and cooking I do love cooking though it's it's just like when I have the timeand desire to cook is when I really enjoy it but yeah generally it's I cookmore for function I guess they're like practicality than enjoyment for most nowit's like the stuff I eat at home is like some Marmite and crackers or like Ihave frozen spinach with like I'll make that with pasta and then I'll packagethat for a few days and I would be like if I don't want to go out for lunchbecause I know it's gonna be crazy sunny yeah this sounds stupid but the Sun hereis incredibly strong and so when I get that you know it's already a hundreddegrees fahrenheit during the day and then the Sun just beating on you and ifI have to walk like a kilometer to get lunch I'll just prep lunch for like fourdays and eat that yeah that's terrible yeah we always joke about this and emailyeah we have like opposite problems with that it's like yeah the rain will be outso I'm like I'm just not going outside today but but I've been like furthersouth in the US and in Mexico and stuff there's definitely a difference and likebeing closer to the equator with the Sun yeah it's it's crazylike the other day Jeb and I went out for lunch and we're just literally itwas like 500 meters down the road to this somtum shop sometimes like a greenpapaya salad that I'm addicted to and I wore my Teva sandals like the ones thathave like the the strap gyms like I was really sunny sure you want to wear thoselike we're just walking down the road and literally by the time I got back mytoes were starting to burn yeah I've said that that sandalstan line or burn line I should say before yeah I knowI burned so easily there there's one time I got Sun poisoning from beingoutside for an hour I was I was house-sitting for so yeah it was crazyI'd never Furion 'zed anything like that before orsince I was I was house-sitting for a friend that lived on a lakeshe had a paddle boats I went out on this paddle boat just in shorts and Ididn't put on sunblock because I was an idiot yeah it was back in Michigan yeahI was out for like 45 minutes or an hour and if I had like the flu essentiallyand I that yeah it was crazy I my poor Polish skin can't handle allthat sunshine yeah my french-canadian genetics doesn't do well with it eitherand yeah I live in you know the tropics in Asia yeah that's crazy but you knowit's funny because people always give me a hard time like when they don't peoplewho don't live here will give me a hard time when they'll see like I wear pantsevery day and we're a long-sleeve shirt every day and I wear I wear a capeverywhere cuz I'm I've got this a huge solar panel on my head now that myhairline is receding and so everyone's like aren't you so hot hot wearing allthat clothes but the reality is no like I'm protecting myself from the Sun andyou have to understand that in Bangkok at least everything is air-conditionedto the extreme oh really everything is like like freezing likeyou you see like Thai people walking around like sweaters and you know likefeeling looking cold and because it's cold inside yeah that's good at leastyeah yeah sometimes with certain places like Portland is such a cusp sort ofplace with the weather where it's not super hot very often here so there's alot of like older buildings and stuff that don't have a ton ofair-conditioning yeah it's I can't even imagine I'm I'mso soft with my temperatures I love my AC in the summer you know it's funny isthat I when I lived in Rhode Island like I would run the aircon a lot but therewas probably a big portion of like spring into summer and fall that youknow I just no aircon no heat I would just like enjoy the the weather Ohio toofor the most part I mean summer is kind of week there it's it's not as cold aslike say we were you lived in Michigan but I was pretty cold especiallyCleveland but you know here in Thailand like wemight get like three or four days a year that I don't need to run the airconditioner and you know it's brutal like sometimes like I'll try to reallyjust stretch it like I'll push myself like like I'll see if I can get tillnoon about aircon and then but it's like oh I get to like 10:00 a.


and I'msweating like in my at my desk it's rough there's um with with all my recentcamping and backpacking obsessions I've been learning a bunch about differentfabrics and stuff or for clothing to take out and yeah I know with thelong-sleeve stuff if you have the right fabrics if it's long-sleeve you knowit's not gonna be any warmer and then yeah you get all the sun protection tooyeah now with the winter – I mean like a silk base layer makes a great insulatingbase layer for cold weather you know something like a Mariano wool which willactually wick moisture away keep you dry and warm yeah like there's a lot of coldweather since you're going out again in a few weeks you know there's a lot ofthings you can do layer wise I was lucky enough I had aoutlier I don't know if the clothing company there they're based on New Yorkthey're like really small run like small release runs of things but they havelike this big cult following online they reached out and asked if I wanted to tryanything to review for the channel they sent they're sending out some reallyreally awesome pants that are yeah like the they'll be the perfect pants to takeout because the other or not they're kind of like denim but they're notcotton they they boast them is the perfect travel pant like the last yeahwhat it's not kind no no they're I forgot what the blend isbut it's some like I don't know I can't even remember now but yeah some sort oflike what's that yeah I'm drawing a blank but do you know of a brand calledNaked and Famous denim brand I've heard of them never tried it but yeah I'veheard of the frame um they have a gene made from cashmerehmm it's like a cashmere denim and I feel like a thousand dollars like morethan a thousand dollars because cashmere is not cheap that's crazyyeah yeah it's like a cashmere salvaged denim jean and they look like crazy warmthat's the same thing like some of the merino wool stuff can get so expensivebut pricey especially Asia like the import tax cuz jibs mean business isknitting knitting and crochet yeah Camero Mariano wool and like all theseother like cashmere stuff can be insane with the import duties jeez yeah it'scrazy fun stuff so hey back to back to ya know where do you where you see it goingwhat's your goal for your business yeah so long termyeah I'm really hoping to have YouTube be my like steady source of income maybenot steady but kind of like my main job and source of income to come fromYouTube and then beyond that you know I have we've talked about this before andthe email had a lot of aspirations for the the cat photography business is kindof launching that as more of like an online lifestyle brand outside of justclient work you know having like blog posts and eventually I'd like to start asecond YouTube channel talk about you know cat tips and things like that andyeah just kind of flesh that out with blog and a store and YouTube channel andso I have that kind of long term for the cat business and then yeah YouTube Ijust really hoped keeps growing and kind of gives me the freedom for that to bemy main income to work on other bigger projects and the the freelance businessfor for video yeah long term I really hope to get into kind of biggerproduction work or not even necessarily bigger production work but just biggerprojects I have aspirations so working for other people more perin all projects I definitely wouldn't be opposed to working with other people butI have some aspirations for a few kind of longer format documentaries andthings I'm just really not able to dedicate the time or resources to rightnow so eventually I'm hoping yeah for YouTube to continue to grow and continueto increase the income along with the the cat business and then being able tokind of really dial back the freelance business to just a handful of projects ayear that I'm really passionate about whether it's companies I want to workwith or personal projects I want to do you know documentaries and stuff yeahyeah cool yeah so if you have a plan to get there you know working on it rightnow with YouTube that's a like I said I've just been super focused in onYouTube stuff the last couple of months or a few months yeah and just reallyworking on putting out the best content possible for so long as a few years agoyou know I'm relatively new to cameras and all of that stuff I I have abackground in graphic design so I understand a lot of things that overlapyou know with and have a lot of experience long-term you know the colortheory and composition and editing and that sort of thing but you know I'mrelatively new on the spectrum of photographer videographer so for a longtime I was just so focused on learning how to do everything now I feel like Ihave a strong grasp on the production so I've just been focusing a lot more onyou know providing better content whether it be you know me being a betterhost and you know doing a better job of like writing and planning and being abit more succinct succinct in in videos and yeah so just kind of working on mebeing a better presenter on YouTube and and just putting out the best possiblecontent most entertaining or informative or whatever the the video would call forso working on growing that further just throughhard work and better videos you know with the all of the the cat business youknow I am being focused on that I've pretty much kind of on autopilot for thetime being but yeah hopefully this year I'm gonna get started on kind of more ofthose online aspects that I want to grow and any other freelance business yeahjust continuing to take all the clients I can get essentially at this being soearly on and you know growing the first year on my own and financially has beena you know a bit of a stressful one so I'm still yeah taken everything I canget essentially just figuring out where to best divide up my time and yeah I'mkind of like in the same boat where it's like um I think we talked like I'm sortof like looking at like a three-year transition plan until whatever is nextin my life yeah and like we talked to have the haberdashery business where Imake like sort of like mostly bags like really minimalist totes or more townlike us and denim briefcase designs now but you know I'm still like working inthe tech space are still pushing deals developing stuff and you know that'swhat I'm trying to sort of phase away from and then I've been I took some timeoff from YouTube again like the last like three weeks I'm sort of banking alot of content and editing and just trying to come back in like full forceand start having a decent amount of contact come out regularly and you knowplus all the podcasts that I produce now or like some of them are starting to dofairly well getting traction so it's alright yeah and I you know withespecially with YouTube stuff and that's yeah I've been trying to set up a bit ofa backlog so I can free up my time because I feel like last year withgetting started off with everything and having clients and YouTubesimultaneously I was always like last minute and I feel like I don't operatethat well creatively when it's like alright today is my day to do somethingI'm not sure what I'm gonna do yet but it's got to be done by tomorrow yeah soit's yeah I've been really working on building up a bit of a you know somelead time on YouTube and so I can just kind of free up to taketime to put out more and then free up time from the other businesses yeah andand yeah the the frustrating part it's it's just a matter of you know forYouTube in my experience matter of like putting in the work and time yeah andthat you know good quality content consistent content and time you know thegrowth has been steady though last year you know with transitioning out ofexclusively weight loss and rebranding the channel you know it's I think itviews for last year or up like 25-30 percent or something so it's like it'syou know it's not that you you know it's not that viral jump that you you kind ofhope for and see for those handful of people out there in in the space but youknow growth is steady and so it's you know I feel confident with seeing thenumbers you know if I just keep going it's just gonna keep going up and up andyeah when I recently relaunched I kind of saw like I didn't think it was gonnado so well and my first couple of videos fell flatand then like something starts like pick up more as I go okay I'm getting acertain see a little bit more traction they said two years off I was surprisedanyone was still following me but yeah yeah that's crazyyeah is panic even like I've taken a few weeks off two times in the you knowthree and a half years I've been on YouTube and yeah I always get a littlepanicky with that like people are they still gonna be there in a month you knowfor me it's something I enjoy doing and I started doing because I want to sharestuff and it's funny like some of the you talk about your most popular videosone of my most popular videos is like a things about Bangkok video and Idefinitely don't want to make travel content but like everyone watches thatvideo I feel bad for like someone who watches that then subscribe to mychannel know that happens to me all the time with my original weight loss storyvideo it's a horrible video is literally thesecond video I had ever made not just for YouTube but just ever andit was awful and in that video still puts down so many views and yeah Iknow it's it's just so different from everything I'm doing now and yeah I'llget subscribers and I'll notice sometimes when that video picks up I'llnotice a jump in unsubscribes after I publish if if that videos getting moreviews at the time but yeah I mean it's it's still still going and churning outI think it's at like a million and a half views or something right now it'sit's crazy how long you know that it's just been running yeah that's great yeahsee it's it's tough though like I'm obviously I'm happy that it did well butthe video is awful like after like it's um and and I like I still believe theyou know my story and everything like it's not awful in the sense of what Iwas trying to portray but yeah I just didn't understand how to use a camera orhow to talk to the camera you know it's it's just like you know everyone talksabout you know just kind of suck it up your first few videos are gonna suckjust post them anyway and you know you'll get better and and thateverything will be fine it's it's like being constantly reminded of like you'reembarrassing early working so I'll still you know be answering comments from thatvideo instead have you thought about are redoing it I I have especially to likeyou had said with not one to make travel videos with the algorithm you know ifyou have one successful video doing videos related to that one always kindof gets a competitive advantage I've thought about doing some sort of likerevisited but yeah that one's just it's in my my list of video idea notes andit'll sit there until I can figure out a way to do it how much did you lose intotal Josh 145 pounds I'm right about 170 to still weigh myself every morningit's just part of my routine now but but yeah I've been maintaining it for almostfive years now it's crazy they even say that you know it was 2015 that's prettymuch when I lost the the bulk of everything and s around in 2020now it's um it's funny after being so many years youknow I don't think about it much anymore and sometimes like I'll look back onthat old stuff and it doesn't even necessarily feel like me but yeah it'sthat it's been good though yeah I've uh I'm a big dude I'm like 280 and evenwhen I get lean I'll be like 260 yeah cuz you're pretty tall too right I knowno yeah well yeah I guess that's not super tall but and you also just havelike big like stockier build that's not like me Frank dude I used to be aprofessional fighter a heavyweight and I fight at 265 and so I've ran a marathonlike six years ago half marathon six years ago I get down to like 230pounds to run this half marathon and a lot of people thought I like look sickat 2:30 oh yeah that's tough especially it's tough for for you to get used tothat sort of thing and then yeah really tough for people around you like my momis still convinced like I lost too much weightall these years later she hasn't brought it up in a little while but yeah thatwas a yeah it's tough for people to adjust to that sort of thing around youbut yeah I could imagine with your frame yeah your height you know getting downthat low it was often you know jib used to be a nutritionist at a hospital shedidn't has a master's in nutrition and she's always like when we first startedto date I would eat the same thing this is when I was like still like preppingfor the half marathon a the same thing like every day and I can sort of get ina rut like that and it doesn't bother me like I don't need variety in my diet Ican eat the same thing for breakfast every day lunch and dinner yeah there Iwas eating the same exact thing they like the same fruit for breakfast everyday and I would have some Tom which is that green papaya salad for lunch inthere and she sent me a spreadsheet with my weekly nutrition and she's likeyou're lacking everything in red you're lacking and pretty much the wholespreadsheet was red nice yeah I always have to watch that sort ofstuff too because I get super repetitive with my meals yeah yeah but you knowit's I mean it it worked out to the point where it's like she's like oh youneed to change what you eat I was like well let me finish this marathon andthis half marathon we'll talk about it and I should have listened to herbeforehand because she was worried about my carb intake before the marathon Ididn't have enough I hit a wall like the halfway point yeah especially for any ofthat you know I'm not a runner at all but I know just know any sort of likehigh performance especially endurance sports like that all that stuff gets sovital there was um I can't really good at it I just did it I wasn't like a goodrunner I mean if you did it that's better than better than me for sure andbetter than most I would imagine yeah I I always thought when I was heavy Ithought I hated running because I was heavier I lost the weight and I stillearning just sucks yeah I know it's it's terrible like I used to joke I haven'tdone as much lately but I got really into cycling a few years back and like II was joke I would rather cycle like a hundred miles then like run a 5k milecycle a century it's not easy yeah that um the most I've ever did was 30 yeah Iused to my usual rides were like 15 to 20 miles and then I'd do like a 30 35mile every so yeah every month yeah yeah I am to be honest the main thing I I hadto abandon the hobby mostly when I started YouTube a lot of like playingvideo games cycling a lot of this random stuff just I lost the time for it well I haven't gone out much latelybecause our air quality has been so bad so now that the air quality is startingto get better I'll go out more and do it unicycle sounds horrifying yeah it's youknow the first couple times are really scary really scarysee I've got I still lift I'm really into this whole grease the groovetheology now what's that so grease the groove we're like instead of like myonly concentrated workout during the day is like my cardio workout everythingelse is like low reps many many times so I'll do curls because every day is armeda push-up squats of kettlebell swings and I'll just do like 5 to 10 reps at atime all throughout the day and so I'm never like going to failure and neverworking you know to to that point I'm just doing it you know when I can when Ihave time I get up and I walk to the kitchen I throw ten kettlebell swings Ican push up so I grab the curl bar and I'll bang out like 1012 reps and that'smy my workout all day long is what I do and you know it's funny because I stillfeel strong I feel like I'm getting strongeryou know if I'm at my desk sitting and I have a minute while something encodesI'll pick up one of my grippers and I've found out ten reps in each hand um butI'm not trying to get bigger yeah it's like I don't want to be big I'm 41 nowso I have to realize that my body's not gonna be able to maintain my massforever yeah right so I gotta figure out a way to get stay strong and keep doingthe workouts I like but get smaller yeah I mean what you're doing and I'm not anexpert in this field but just for my own personal like research and experiencewith all what you're doing is definitely plenty there's some info out there withthe muscle deterioration over time the sarcopenia but yeah even any like basicroutines like that is more than enough to prevent that muscle loss for the mostpart or at least get you you know eighty percent of the way there which is allthat matters for most everything but um yeah those basic workouts are definitelymore than enough to kind of combat a lot of that muscle loss it's when peopledon't anything or reps I do way more reps throughout the day now so I mightdo in one day like 500 reps of one exercise yeah I've really dialed back tomy workouts because I when I was rightafter I was losing weight I got really into bodybuilding and then yeah overtime as I got busier with all this stuff it just kind of again compelled by thewayside a bit but nowadays I cancelled my gym membership a couple years ago nowand and I just do super basic like body weight and resistance band workouts athome you know I keep it super simple like I'm really only doing you know15-20 minutes and a day but I'll still usually get that 5 or 6 days a weekI must I have some particularly crazy week where I'm having to go out earlyfor jobs but yeah just that super basic work I've I you know I'm not at mycomplete biggest but I've been able to keep and maintain most of my muscle massand definitely you know the weight loss aspects and then being on foot you knowit's easy to get some steps out and it's been a little or problematic with beingat home now I usually try and make an effort to get outside and go for a walkfor something everyday but yeah I've really dialed back to just a prettybasic quick workout for you know muscles maintenance I think the past like 5 daysI felt like 15, 000 steps a day but like not most days I'm like not even comingclose to like 6 or 7 oh yeah yeah mine um you can always tell like I don'ttrack that that I'm not very dedicated to my tracking but I'll check you canalways see which days I didn't leave the apartment so it'll be like you knowthirteen thousand steps 11, 000 steps 15, 000 and then 2500 steps yep that's Ihave the Apple watch so every time like at the end of every day I look at it andlike like right now what I got like 60 even though we went out today I didn'treally do much I was just reset but I was at like 6, 500 for yesterday yeah soand just cuz all we did was go to the movies and then came home yeah I took anap for three hours yeah a lot of a lot of nothing but it's Sunday it's okayyeah there you go you gotta have some rest timing that's it's a good excuseJosh I'll let you get onto the rest of your Sunday I appreciate you taking thetime we're way over time allotment here so thank you oh yeah no problemalways happy to chat guys don't forget to check out Josh's channel links willbe down in the description or in the show notes if you listen to somepodcasts it's Josh fan also Instagram is still bearded fat loss is it Josh fan noit's actually Josh fan with no oh the Hat someone else has my name and I askedif they would give it up and they said no but J sh f e and N and there's linksall that on youtube so if you just rush its got links to all of it you'll findall this stuff but he definitely has some great content and I play said we'vecollabed before but I've been following what you're doing for years now and yeahwe've been collaborating a little bit and we're always talking so definitelyworth checking out great stuff especially like with the cat businessI'm really just interested to see how that that turns out so far like like Isaid it's kind of something I fell into and yeah I love it though it's so muchfun yeah I'm very curious to see how it how it pans out too sure you are as wellyeah your business alright thank again guys although all the links in the shownotes be sure to check that out and I will see you next time.

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